60 replies to this topic

[Zenzo2]

 zivo, on 04 April 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

Could the writer explain to me what is foreign about Christianity to Africa?

Who brought that book called the bible to Africa? Why do you think our ancestors murdered father Gonzalo da Silvera? They had a foresight of the dangers of this thing called christianity.... Makandiwa and Tb joshua are rich at the expense of poor congregants, more churches are springing up instead of factories? which nation has developed from building churches?

i rest my case, a word to the wise is enough

[nabu]

 Zenzo2, on 29 April 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Who brought that book called the bible to Africa? Why do you think our ancestors murdered father Gonzalo da Silvera? They had a foresight of the dangers of this thing called christianity.... Makandiwa and Tb joshua are rich at the expense of poor congregants, more churches are springing up instead of factories? which nation has developed from building churches?

i rest my case, a word to the wise is enough

Well said Zenzo2. One of the very few people on this forum who exercises his brain. Just a few centuries ago Christians would be burning you at the stake for daring to say that the world is round.

“The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow of the earth on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church.” Ferdinand Magellan, explorer (according to R.Ingersoll, not verified)

[zivo]

 Zenzo2, on 29 April 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Who brought that book called the bible to Africa? Why do you think our ancestors murdered father Gonzalo da Silvera? They had a foresight of the dangers of this thing called christianity.... Makandiwa and Tb joshua are rich at the expense of poor congregants, more churches are springing up instead of factories? which nation has developed from building churches?

i rest my case, a word to the wise is enough

Brother "zenzo2"

I read what you wrote but it is nowhere near understanding my question. I will ask you again. What is foreign about christianity?

[zivo]

 nabu, on 01 May 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

Well said Zenzo2. One of the very few people on this forum who exercises his brain. Just a few centuries ago Christians would be burning you at the stake for daring to say that the world is round.

“The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow of the earth on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church.” Ferdinand Magellan, explorer (according to R.Ingersoll, not verified)

Nabu: You too are invited to give your answer to the same question.

[nabu]

 zivo, on 01 May 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

Nabu: You too are invited to give your answer to the same question.

Zivo... I thought Zenzo2 answered it very well. What is foreign about Christianity? Well, before 150 years ago this country did not have a single trace of this white God or his white son or this white dove...and those funny-looking missionaries in socks & sandals came and told us that this new religion was the most important think in life, and we should consider all our traditional beliefs as "Satanic" and throw them out the window.

Today we are in the incredible position of being more Christian than the Christians who brought it to us in the first place!

I'm not sure how you can ask your question, given this knowledge?


Thank you Master for bringing the Truth to us savages

[zivo]

 nabu, on 02 May 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Zivo... I thought Zenzo2 answered it very well. What is foreign about Christianity? Well, before 150 years ago this country did not have a single trace of this white God or his white son or this white dove...and those funny-looking missionaries in socks & sandals came and told us that this new religion was the most important think in life, and we should consider all our traditional beliefs as "Satanic" and throw them out the window.

Today we are in the incredible position of being more Christian than the Christians who brought it to us in the first place!

I'm not sure how you can ask your question, given this knowledge?


Thank you Master for bringing the Truth to us savages

Nabu: I will kindly ask you to revisit your search and dig deeper so that you hold on the truth about Zimbabwe religion much ealier than 250 years ago. 'Gonzalo da Silveira arrived in Zimbabwe (451) years ago and in his diary about the Zim-African religion at  Monomutapa ref:(jesu esque ad sang. et vita profus. militans(Prague 1675) pt i & ii, Vide Theal Records,&c.,ii and La Religion Des Primitifs (Beauchesne et Cie.).( said. 'the Natives believe in One God called Mwari unamasimba wokumusoro-soro(Most-High God Almighty)they keep one resting day in a week, punish udulterers by removing their eyes,throw murderers and witches into the deep waters tagged to a heavy weight....(Translated into mordern English).He pictures a people who without the written Holy Scriptures are a Strong willed, Devoted and Austere Religious Nation.......

Please pass this to Zenzo2 and share sincerely!!!

[nabu]

 zivo, on 03 May 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Nabu: I will kindly ask you to revisit your search and dig deeper so that you hold on the truth about Zimbabwe religion much ealier than 250 years ago. 'Gonzalo da Silveira arrived in Zimbabwe (451) years ago and in his diary about the Zim-African religion at  Monomutapa ref:(jesu esque ad sang. et vita profus. militans(Prague 1675) pt i & ii, Vide Theal Records,&c.,ii and La Religion Des Primitifs (Beauchesne et Cie.).( said. 'the Natives believe in One God called Mwari unamasimba wokumusoro-soro(Most-High God Almighty)they keep one resting day in a week, punish udulterers by removing their eyes,throw murderers and witches into the deep waters tagged to a heavy weight....(Translated into mordern English).He pictures a people who without the written Holy Scriptures are a Strong willed, Devoted and Austere Religious Nation.......

Please pass this to Zenzo2 and share sincerely!!!

Thank you for the info Zivo, however you fail to tell us where Gonzalo da Silveira mentioned this white Son of a Jewish God in his merry travels in Monomutapa?

Allow me to repeat my question (perhaps you were having your siesta when I asked it)

"......Well, before 150 years [make that 451 years ago ] ago this country did not have a single trace of this white God or his white son or this white dove..."

[zivo]

 nabu, on 04 May 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

Thank you for the info Zivo, however you fail to tell us where Gonzalo da Silveira mentioned this white Son of a Jewish God in his merry travels in Monomutapa?

Allow me to repeat my question (perhaps you were having your siesta when I asked it)

"......Well, before 150 years [make that 451 years ago ] ago this country did not have a single trace of this white God or his white son or this white dove..."

Nabu: Is it not clear to you that the first white missionary who landed in Zimbabwe on december 26 1560 concurred with the locals on God's identity manner of reverence/worship and his commandments. (letters from mocambique- gonzalo da silveira)  In other words he confirms in his scripts that it was the same God he had come to preach about. You will appreciate that even in the Bible compiles, there is no mention of colour but God is identified by his attributes.

[Zenzo2]

Wogara muZimbabwe ivo vapambemfumi, vakatanga nyaya dzemachurch. Kuna st luke, kuna st joni. Saint nehanda irikupi here pambemfuni? Saint kaguvi irikupi, here pambemfuni? Maruza maruza pambemfumi.    That songs tells the whole history of Zimbabwe. And the scandal surrounding churches and this Christianity..  Excuse my Shona spelling there

[Zenzo2]

Just to know, one of Zimbabwe' s famous pastors Makandiwa admitted to corruption. I will be lobbying hard to get him arrested by the anti- corruption commission and given a long sentence. Probe should extend to all these mega million pastors, thieves who have deceived many as we can see in this forum

[zivo]

 Zenzo2, on 05 May 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Just to know, one of Zimbabwe' s famous pastors Makandiwa admitted to corruption. I will be lobbying hard to get him arrested by the anti- corruption commission and given a long sentence. Probe should extend to all these mega million pastors, thieves who have deceived many as we can see in this forum

@ zenzo2 My question is still owing to you, What is foreign about Christianity and not characters in the compliled Holy Scriptures. Those people were actually practising Christianity in their days so what is unAfrican practising this religion?

[nabu]

 zivo, on 04 May 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Nabu: Is it not clear to you that the first white missionary who landed in Zimbabwe on december 26 1560 concurred with the locals on God's identity manner of reverence/worship and his commandments. (letters from mocambique- gonzalo da silveira)  In other words he confirms in his scripts that it was the same God he had come to preach about. You will appreciate that even in the Bible compiles, there is no mention of colour but God is identified by his attributes.

Iwe zivo the African god was never Jesus, no matter how much you try and crawl in your skin. Finish.

[zivo]

 nabu, on 05 May 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Iwe zivo the African god was never Jesus, no matter how much you try and crawl in your skin. Finish.

I mentioned it clearly Nabu: The African God was never known as Jesus but is the same and only Jesus Christ described in the Holy Scriptures. The world over In the past GOD raised prophets and spoke through them as communication vessels and for Zimbabwe in particular name whatever you want provided the attributes are not different.

Hebrews:1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.(NKJV)

[nabu]

 zivo, on 05 May 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

I mentioned it clearly Nabu: The African God was never known as Jesus but is the same and only Jesus Christ described in the Holy Scriptures. The world over In the past GOD raised prophets and spoke through them as communication vessels and for Zimbabwe in particular name whatever you want provided the attributes are not different.

Hebrews:1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.(NKJV)

Exactly, zivo. The prosecution rests.

"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 10:5-6

[zivo]

 nabu, on 06 May 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Exactly, zivo. The prosecution rests.

"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 10:5-6

You still show some misunderstanding Nabu. Being not known as Jesus by name, or not addressed by the name Jesus, is not the same as not Jesus or not God. He was their God but known with a different name. Thank you!!

Here's what Jesus said about other races including yours: John 10:16

16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

[Zenzo2]

 zivo, on 05 May 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

I mentioned it clearly Nabu: The African God was never known as Jesus but is the same and only Jesus Christ described in the Holy Scriptures. The world over In the past GOD raised prophets and spoke through them as communication vessels and for Zimbabwe in particular name whatever you want provided the attributes are not different.

Hebrews:1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.(NKJV)

Missionaries were simple opening the gates for colonialism. Their were more of intelligence gatherers, for colonialist who were later to commit serious atrocities against Africans. Your so called modern day prophets are robbing people in the midst of the day. so how do these people qualify as holy prophets God raised to bring the message to Zimbabwe. I say and will always say, The Christian relgiion is one of the worlds biggest scam ever..... And it takes the wise to see through it

[zivo]

 Zenzo2, on 06 May 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Missionaries were simple opening the gates for colonialism. Their were more of intelligence gatherers, for colonialist who were later to commit serious atrocities against Africans. Your so called modern day prophets are robbing people in the midst of the day. so how do these people qualify as holy prophets God raised to bring the message to Zimbabwe. I say and will always say, The Christian relgiion is one of the worlds biggest scam ever..... And it takes the wise to see through it

cheaters, thieves, evil doers have always been there spreading everywhere together with the rise of civalisation. These characters hid behind various screens to beat unsuspecting hosts. It is their trade and it is sad that some people dont see facts as such. Today it is happening as we speak but true christians will not revoke their faith because of the evil ones using it to live their trade. Truth can be denied or rejected but it will never be shamed

[polymath]

 Zenzo2, on 01 February 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

When I visited Zimbabwe last year I was shocked at the number of churches which have sprung up everywhere. Even the traditional churches have become more radical and extreme.   Taking a bus from Harare to Bulawayo... there was a prayer before the journey begun and have also heard most business meetings now start with a prayer in some reputable companies.  Gospel musicians are increasing and are making big buck. Mapostori which have always been shunned for their strange beleifs are attracting record numbers.

Why is this the case? You simple need to look at the devastating economic indicators. People have turned to religion christianity in particuler. But the radical practise of christianity by some Zimbabweans is a cause for concern.
Many are spending so much time attending church meetings instead of doing productive things.  if you were to spend a bit of time doing a self evaluation of yourself, you will not a need religious leader to tell you what is wrong with you and why you are not succeeding in life. As Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the masses.  Why are Zimbabweans clinging so much to a religion which was used to colonize them and enslave them. The whites themselves know it, that is why you can count the number who go to church.


Our origins are not known and people are still trying to look for answers. The Genesis fairy tale is just what it is a folk tale, with no evidence........If your God was there why is it that you are scumbags of the world with unimagibale suffering, whilst the heathens prosper in the world your God made..... s

smarten up smarten up...   Mbuya Nehanda did better she said,.... ¨I will not covert to your religion (christianity), I will rather die than to give up the beleifs of my forefathers¨

http://www.zimgossip.hostoi.com/

 Zenzo2, on 05 May 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Wogara muZimbabwe ivo vapambemfumi, vakatanga nyaya dzemachurch. Kuna st luke, kuna st joni. Saint nehanda irikupi here pambemfuni? Saint kaguvi irikupi, here pambemfuni? Maruza maruza pambemfumi.    That songs tells the whole history of Zimbabwe. And the scandal surrounding churches and this Christianity..  Excuse my Shona spelling there

 Zenzo2, on 29 April 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Who brought that book called the bible to Africa? Why do you think our ancestors murdered father Gonzalo da Silvera? They had a foresight of the dangers of this thing called christianity.... Makandiwa and Tb joshua are rich at the expense of poor congregants, more churches are springing up instead of factories? which nation has developed from building churches?

i rest my case, a word to the wise is enough

You sound like one confused and mixed up person who doesn't know where to stand. The very white missionaries you are critical of are the very bringers of civilisation/factories which you worship so much. Why do you not find the factories foreign too? Western clothes, education etc your ability to type these foolish notes on these forums is an indirect sacrifice made from the missionaries who travelled these lands. You are one big hypocrite. You embrace civilisation, scorn christianity, scorn the very missionaries who brought you the factories and taught you to read and write. Are you OK?

P/S whilst you are at it pointing fingers and blaming others kindly show us what good you have brought into this world to make it a better place according to your observations. Idle talk/pub/dagga talk and all kind of trash language is very easy behind a pseudonymn. I would not be amazed that contrary to your boasts you earn a living as a bum cleaner in some old peoples home in a foreign western land and your only knowledge of a factory was early on when you worked as a labourer scrubbing the scum and urine inpregnated toilets of your white bosses.

I would not be surprised that you were visiting Zimbabwe from you native "foreign" land where you are domiciled. We await to see your noble example by building us at least one factory in Zimbabwe. You will be  one of the first. Lead us please.

In case you are still obsessed with factories at the end of your thread here are some of the best destinations for you and your family to go and settle, just take your pick:

http://www.time.com/...1661016,00.html

http://www.mibazaar....utedcities.html

[Zenzo2]

The more insults I get here, the more my theory is proved right. No wonder the most advanced countries in the world are the least religious, because beleiving in superbeings corrupts the mind.

I do appreciate foreign things and being introduced to new ways of doing things. Problem was christianity came with a hidden agenda.. and its theories don´t add up. it is a vehicle for opperessing the weak and poor.

 polymath, on 07 May 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

You sound like one confused and mixed up person who doesn't know where to stand. The very white missionaries you are critical of are the very bringers of civilisation/factories which you worship so much. Why do you not find the factories foreign too? Western clothes, education etc your ability to type these foolish notes on these forums is an indirect sacrifice made from the missionaries who travelled these lands. You are one big hypocrite. You embrace civilisation, scorn christianity, scorn the very missionaries who brought you the factories and taught you to read and write. Are you OK?

P/S whilst you are at it pointing fingers and blaming others kindly show us what good you have brought into this world to make it a better place according to your observations. Idle talk/pub/dagga talk and all kind of trash language is very easy behind a pseudonymn. I would not be amazed that contrary to your boasts you earn a living as a bum cleaner in some old peoples home in a foreign western land and your only knowledge of a factory was early on when you worked as a labourer scrubbing the scum and urine inpregnated toilets of your white bosses.

I would not be surprised that you were visiting Zimbabwe from you native "foreign" land where you are domiciled. We await to see your noble example by building us at least one factory in Zimbabwe. You will be  one of the first. Lead us please.

In case you are still obsessed with factories at the end of your thread here are some of the best destinations for you and your family to go and settle, just take your pick:

http://www.time.com/...1661016,00.html

http://www.mibazaar....utedcities.html

[polymath]

 Zenzo2, on 07 May 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

The more insults I get here, the more my theory is proved right. No wonder the most advanced countries in the world are the least religious, because beleiving in superbeings corrupts the mind.

I do appreciate foreign things and being introduced to new ways of doing things. Problem was christianity came with a hidden agenda.. and its theories don´t add up. it is a vehicle for opperessing the weak and poor.

I admit my reaction was very low there. I'm not good at low blows but I lost my cool.I apologise. But that doesn't mean my response represents other Christian's views either so your conclusion is based on false statistics and foolish preconceived notions.

I still can't figure out why you started off glorifying the white man and his sophistication/factories etc, then in the next vein you spurn him as a villain (vapambepfumi). You sound very mixed up in ideas and philosophy. I put it to reading too many big books and listening to many empty slogans from political rallies bellowed from under some tree by a misguided individual, maybe I'm wrong. You will prove me.

Now tell me did you drool at those cities I just showed you? Is it somewhere you are eager to relocate to right now because its the best place you have ever heard off.....where people are dying of various cancers, asthmas, and other unimaginable diseases because the factories there have clogged up the atmosphere and water with every kind of poison that you can dig out of the earth. Where fish, bats, bees and wildlife (God's creation) are vanishing from the earth through mysterious illnesses due to pollution. I'm not sure you will be one of the first to buy a ticket to go and settle there.

To answer your question......some of us just want the simple and plain life of knowing that we are children being led by a loving Father in heaven. we do not concern ourselves with the sophistication of "factories" and industry as you put it. But we do take pride in knowing that all the things man boasts of shall come to pass and are coming to pass. You of course are welcome to make your choice as you have rightly done.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

I had intimated further by suggesting the ideal locations where you would most fit in seeing that you are obsessed with factories and industries that way you will not be offended by the simple life of Christians, but rather you will be in your own good company and have much to share with your kith and kin in the fumes of pollution from your factories. Is it a deal? Or you build us one factory in Zimbabwe then we know what you are talking about.

Which factory in particular fascinates you the most?