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Church yekwa paul mwazha


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#21 Ojo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:26 AM

View PostRuwi Vhitori, on 11 March 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

Ojo I respect you but how do you define a prophet?
Am sure it will be a biblical based explanation and after that tell us one modern day prophet who qualifies.

They are Profits not Prophets.
I once went to a church were a prophet prophisied something like this:
''In here today is a woman with the phone 077972.....''
To what end? The woman whom they must have appraised prior to prophesying became hysterical. Hanzi holy spirit hazivi number yangu when we had had signed enrolment forms.

How do I define prophet? I could define based on the Bible or by real life experience and still end up saying the same thing - because I have taken the trouble to compare.

A prophet is a servant of God - who is sent by heaven to speak. (Amos 3:7). A prophet is ordained by the Spirit of God (or Holy Spirit).

Through the Holy Spirit some or ordained to be pastors, prophets, teachers, evangelists (Ephesians 4:10-11).

A prophet may be a man or a woman. They could be young or old persons - they need  not be ordained at a particular age. Holy Spirit ordination usually entails confirmation by other prophets.

The prophet I am talking about is not your "profit". They serve for free.

Likewise, a pastor is also ordained by the Holy Spirit and must serve for free. I know majority of those you call pastors do not fit this definition but that is not my fault.

I serve as a pastor in a Prophetic Church. It is called "Gospel of God Church" and it was founded in Zimbabwe (I have never been there - am in Kenya) by someone you may have heard of, who popularly went by the name "Johane Masowe".

A prophet is not a Church leader in the real sense. So the Bible does not contradict itself when it says that a woman should not have authority over men...

A prophet is not a pastor. Though some people have several gifts - and may be pastors as well as prophets as well as teachers - example is Paul in the Bible.

I have been a pastor for years and that was also foretold - when it did not look real. My parent who was so told thought it was a confusion with my brother. I serve knowing that any day now I may also be ordained as a prophet - and if so, it need not mean that I shall be paid for my work - in fact, like many, I spend in God's service - earning from elsewhere.

It was not my intention to talk about self, but it might help me explain myself more clearly.

A more correct definition, the one I need to know when serving in Church, is that correctly speaking, a prophet is not even a person. I hope am not confusing. A prophet is an angel - of a particular type. Angels like us are different. Some are in the army (Rev 19:10..) or like Michael, some are doctors like Raphael (in your Bible if you are Catholic). Some would be like intelligence personnel. Those are the ones who work with prophets. The army ones are the ones who work with teachers etc.

When you read 1 Corinthians 14:32, you read about the "spirits of the prophets". Those are angels. An angel is a spirit (Hebrews 1:14).

Therefore, the person prophet is a human being like any other. He/she can get into a dispute with his/her angel. And at worst an evil angel (or spirit) can take over - like happened with King Saul, after he was ordained by Samuel.

So when we call a person a prophet, it is not to say that they are perfect! They never were. Even those in the Bible had mistakes - some of which you are read. And remember not everything about them is written. What we pay attention to is the angel - empowered by the Holy Spirit.

You will see evidence of the angels when you read testimonies of Ezekiel or Daniel or John in Revelations. It is usually one particular angel.

But,
There are also fallen angels who can come an work in churches as well. They can foretell and such like thing and to be honest the rank-and-file Bible reader can easily be misled.

Prophets mainly get visions and explain them. They can also translate dreams for instance - even without being told - just like Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar.

I do not know if you still want  me to say more about prophets - but if there is anything you wish me to clarify, you are free to ask. I am trying to be brief.
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#22 Ojo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:27 AM

Regarding the lady and the phone number. I know someone who sent a text to a madam who was about to commit suicide - whose number he did not know.

Modern day prophet? Well, I do not know if this is helpful. People usually know about the past than the present. They are willing to believe the past more. You will talk about Jesus today, but when Jesus was walking the land, people were more interested in Abraham they never saw.

Also, it is not may intention to teach you about a personality. That is even where many are going wrong. I would rather tell you about the gospel of God. And I have seen many prophets could mention dozens and point well over 100.

If I were to talk about one, allow me to make it Samuel Chinyanga (1898 - 2004). I knew him well and he lived to be 106. He was from Zimbabwe when it was still Rhodesia.

When Johane Masowe was born in 1914, Chinyanga was herding cattle and saw the many wonders that took place across the land - but like most, they meant nothing to him.

He later met the messenger of God and took interest in his Church - previously he had been serving in the Anglican Church.

He was called to serve in the Church - which meant leaving home and his land.. He refused. For that he fell sick, was paralyzed for 3 years. Even his hands got disfigured to some extent. When he accepted, he recovered.

And he left Zimbabwe. Remarkable works of Chinyanga (for me) are when there was a drought and our first president called Churches to pray - as still happens even today. When prayers were over church leaders were called for speeches. Kenyatta realized that some people in white had not spoken and he called them asking what they had to say. Chinyanga told the president on the face that nobody would leave the venue without being rained on. There was not a cloud in the sky, but it happened.

I know of his prophecies  - about leaders, about unborn children who came to be as spoken. Plenty. Even a prophecy of Johane Masowe that came to be fulfilled on him when he was over 100 years old in Ethiopia. They had been sent to visit a place on a hill - in Axum Ethiopia. The prophecy had it that he would climb that mountain when he was so old, that he would have to be carried on a wheel-burrow along some stretch.

It is from he's likes that we did learn to serve God when called. Not to say like he did that his father had left many cattle for him to take care of.

Having said that, let it be known to you that for me, a prophet is a servant of God like the others I mentioned. And I am not awed by the title or name.
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#23 Will B. Free

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:40 PM

I have to thank you for your indepth answer and your dedication to Gods work- blessings upon you.I assume then you are Mupostori, and in that church "maporofita "akawanda. The prophecies you are talking about are personal but in the bible prophets carried messages for God's people.  

I will give your response the detailed answer it deserves when I get home.
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#24 Will B. Free

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

I have to thank you for your indepth answer and your dedication to Gods work- blessings upon you.I assume then you are Mupostori, and in that church "maporofita "akawanda. The prophecies you are talking about are personal but in the bible prophets carried messages for God's people.  

I will give your response the detailed answer it deserves when I get home.
Freedom ain't Free.

#25 Will B. Free

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

I have to thank you for your indepth answer and your dedication to Gods work- blessings upon you.I assume then you are Mupostori, and in that church "maporofita "akawanda. The prophecies you are talking about are personal but in the bible prophets carried messages for God's people.  

I will give your response the detailed answer it deserves when I get home.
Freedom ain't Free.

#26 Ojo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:54 PM

View PostRuwi Vhitori, on 12 March 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I have to thank you for your indepth answer and your dedication to Gods work- blessings upon you.I assume then you are Mupostori, and in that church "maporofita "akawanda. The prophecies you are talking about are personal but in the bible prophets carried messages for God's people.  

I will give your response the detailed answer it deserves when I get home.

If you know that there are Vapostori, that is good. I hope you also know that Vapostori are not homogeneous. They belong to a number of churches - some of which do not even have common origin.

I will be happy if you take time and respond at your pleasure. Maybe I should not comment already, maybe it might be helpful.

What took place in the Bible is the same as what is happening today - if you look carefully. Today's prophecies are also for God's people - even if they may be among Vapostori.

In the Bible, Kings were ordained by prophets. That happens even today. Maybe you should ask where Gabriel Mugabe came from. They are many - even Barrack Obama. Leaders are put in place by God. I know you will say they are not believers or some are dictators and so on. I agree. But even Nebuchadnezzar was put in power by God. And when he misbehaved he was trashed.

That happens even today. You remember someone who called himself "Kings of Kings of Africa". He used to be called Muhamar Gadaffi. Where is he? When he uttered those words, a vision was seen and it was full of Gbagbos and the rest. Only one man in that particular vision is still surviving.

So today's prophecies are for God's people. There are God's people even among Vapostori. Today's prophecies are not different from those in the Bible. Look carefully. If famines were foretold, it still happens. If Children to be born were talked about, it still happens.

I hope you know that there is not even one thing called Bible. It all depends on what Canon you pay allegiance to. The one of Rome is not the one of London is not the one of Syria or Ethiopia. There were many books but each group selected its own books. And we in Africa obviously follow what came from our colonial masters - without raising any question.
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#27 Will B. Free

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:47 PM

Thank you Pastor. Am paIphone so am limited.
In the meantime kindly fashion the following:
You say your church was started by Johanne Masowe (John of the wilderness) but you are using a different name "Gospel of God church". Do you follow the new or old testament? Do you approach God through Jesus or as some mapostori do through church founders "
What is the church's rules on polygamy and medical treatment?Just in brief if its okay then we can look closer later.
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#28 Ojo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:36 PM

View PostRuwi Vhitori, on 12 March 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Thank you Pastor. Am paIphone so am limited.
In the meantime kindly fashion the following:
You say your church was started by Johanne Masowe (John of the wilderness) but you are using a different name "Gospel of God church". Do you follow the new or old testament? Do you approach God through Jesus or as some mapostori do through church founders"
What is the church's rules on polygamy and medical treatment?Just in brief if its okay then we can look closer later.

The name of the Church is the one that he gave. I know that there is church called Johane Masowe YeChishanu. We could call them our "relatives". But if you go to the history, this was a church whose leaders parted ways with Johane Masowe as early as 1942.(He began ministering in 1932, and died 1973). So as a Church we were with him for all 40 years.

Polygamy? Well not the Church but if you read the Bible, you will not find anything prohibiting polygamy. It was even mandatory in some cases (Matt 22:23). Or did the God of Moses encourage sin. Our Church is under God - not Queen or Pope.

I know you will quote Paul saying that a Bishop should have one wife. Why not a pastor or prophet? What about Church like mine where there is no Bishop? And what about the rank-and-file membership. This statement is in fact an admission that there were polygamous families in Paul's church.

Medical treatment? We even have pastors and prophets who are medics. And even nuns in our convents access medical care when they need it. So I don't think there is anyone more special. But as God's people I think you may know that many sicknesses that even medics cannot diagnose (until maybe it is late) get sorted through prayers. And there are many who have failed to get help via modern medicine for whom prayer has worked.

Follow New or Old Testament? Depending on what you mean by follow. We read the entire Bible and more. But we know that we are in the Seventh and last covenant - which is foretold or pointed to in both the New and Old Testament. We cannot go back to Eden. That passed. We cannot become Israelites. We could only have fit in the sixth Church. But you know that Church perished - that is why you can confess that there are no prophets.

Put simply, you cannot follow a covenant that has passed. It is like building Noah's Ark today. But if you compare with the Bible, you will find that our Church is more like any Church from Adam to Revelations than those who profess to "follow the New Testament". Follow what? The mode of worship? The rules of the Church? The structure of the Church? Or is it merely mentioning Jesus?

If we observe the Sabbath, it was observed even in the New Testament. We are following God's word in our time. There has never been a Church like ours.

We pray to God directly - because we are in the times of the Father. We pray in the name of the "Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19) That is where Jesus comes in.

But we know that a messenger was promised to Africa. A mighty Savior. Isaiah 19:20. That is not Jesus and if you think it is, I dare you to say so because the Bible will prove you very wrong. Even Jesus spoke of Elijah or John's coming. That is where we are at. The future.
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#29 Will B. Free

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:40 PM

Thank you for the answer.  In polygamy you quote Matt 22:23, but these were the practises of Saducees who did not believe the resurrection. Even then they were polygamous in the event of desth. Is your polygamy based on dire circumstaces or simply on a man's desire to have mire than one wife contrary to Paul's teaching?
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#30 Ojo

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:53 PM

View PostRuwi Vhitori, on 13 March 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Thank you for the answer.  In polygamy you quote Matt 22:23, but these were the practises of Saducees who did not believe the resurrection. Even then they were polygamous in the event of desth. Is your polygamy based on dire circumstaces or simply on a man's desire to have mire than one wife contrary to Paul's teaching?

Does Paul say that a MAN should have only one wife? Copy and paste the verse

Or can you find any such Bible verse - even if it is not from Paul?

We do not teach polygamy or require men to be polygamous. However, we cannot pretend that God said it is wrong.

About Sadducees. You are wrong. Because the verse am quoting is actually from Deuteronomy. The Laws of Moses. I am not aware that Moses was a Sadducee. Am not aware that David or Solomon were Sadducee. And many more who were in direct contact with God had more than one wife. Some had one. We can say Adam had one wife but that is so if Genesis is all you know about Adam.

We have nothing to oppose Paul for and we got the Word of God from heaven - not by reading Paul. But am sure it is consistent.
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#31 generaldexter

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:11 AM

View PostOjo, on 13 March 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Does Paul say that a MAN should have only one wife? Copy and paste the verse

Or can you find any such Bible verse - even if it is not from Paul?

We do not teach polygamy or require men to be polygamous. However, we cannot pretend that God said it is wrong.

About Sadducees. You are wrong. Because the verse am quoting is actually from Deuteronomy. The Laws of Moses. I am not aware that Moses was a Sadducee. Am not aware that David or Solomon were Sadducee. And many more who were in direct contact with God had more than one wife. Some had one. We can say Adam had one wife but that is so if Genesis is all you know about Adam.

We have nothing to oppose Paul for and we got the Word of God from heaven - not by reading Paul. But am sure it is consistent.

[1] Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
[2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
[3] Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
[5] Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
[6] But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
[7] For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.


#32 Will B. Free

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:43 AM

Thank you general. Paul says let every man have his own wife ( singular) and vice versa
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#33 Life

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:46 AM

Thanx General: in fact the Mapositori sect are dying of AIDS full time (of course so does many from any other denomination)but the Mapositori sect DONT ALLOW GOING TO HOSPITAL!!

OJO what is it about hospitals that is not 'christian'?
Hear me, Oh LORD; for thy loving kindness is good: turn unto me according to the multitude of thy tender mercies. Ps 70:16

#34 taku taku

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:11 PM

saka makazoti hapana vekwamwazha here pano kunze kwa sisi ruramiso?

#35 Ojo

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:54 PM

View PostLife, on 14 March 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Thanx General: in fact the Mapositori sect are dying of AIDS full time (of course so does many from any other denomination)but the Mapositori sect DONT ALLOW GOING TO HOSPITAL!!

OJO what is it about hospitals that is not 'christian'?
Life,
I do not have to answer you at length. If you read my earlier response, I said in my Church we go to hospitals - but we also believe in healing. There is no one thing called "Mapostori Sect". That is a creation of outsiders - as you know "Mapostori" is not even correct Shona - even though I do not speak much Shona.

There are Churches - some of them completely unrelated in terms of origin that go by the name "Mapsotri". They do not agree on many things. They may have common charcteristics just like you may point out for instance that they wear white dress.
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#36 Ojo

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:09 PM

View Postgeneraldexter, on 14 March 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

[1] Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
[2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
[3] Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
[5] Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
[6] But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
[7] For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

Thank you General Dexter,
First, to explain my understanding of what you have given, Paul was giving advice to avoid fornication - which was a sin from the times of Adam to the times of Jesus. Not all of Paul's pronouncement are law (if some are). When Paul says that widows are best left unmarried, he does not mean that it is a sin for them to marry.

When Paul says later that younger widows (young is relative) should marry it does not mean that it is sin for them not to. All this advice was geared at avoiding sin - adultery and fornication.

If polygamy was a sin, there would be law against it. God could have told David or Solomon on the face. Solomon was condemned of course. But is sin was marrying foreign pagan wives - which was the same for Samson - who had only one Delilah.

Secondly,
And this is the more important. Someone asked whether we follow Old or New Testament and I said we read them all but correctly speaking we do not follow either. In fact, one way of saying it is we do not follow. We read the Bible to learn and understand from it to apply in the present covenant - the seventh covenant.

So truthfully, we do not read the Bible to do what Paul did or replicate his Church. Our Church is the last Church. It is the one that even John in Revelation saw as the future. Rev 14:6-7. He saw everlasting Gospel. That was not his Church. They already had the Word of God. But they were perishing and did perish - and were being shown the future - which is us.

Every covenant has its unique rules and features. There is what we have that Paul did not have. In our Church, we have nuns - for a reason. Paul did not have such responsibility. So we cannot learn from him about that for instance.

Also, we do not do everything that is said in the Bible but what God told us. We will not say baptize in water - not because of lack of water, but because that was the commandment for the Seventh Covenant. Again, my "we" is not universal for Vapostori.

This is the Church foretold to come to Africa. If you follow prophecy, it is different from Paul's.
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#37 Life

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:26 PM

View PostOjo, on 14 March 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Life,
I do not have to answer you at length. If you read my earlier response, I said in my Church we go to hospitals - but we also believe in healing. There is no one thing called "Mapostori Sect". That is a creation of outsiders - as you know "Mapostori" is not even correct Shona - even though I do not speak much Shona.

There are Churches - some of them completely unrelated in terms of origin that go by the name "Mapsotri". They do not agree on many things. They may have common charcteristics just like you may point out for instance that they wear white dress.
You answered well, however the term 'mapositori' has an identification purpose just like saying 'pentecoastal' 'end time' or mainline churches. sorry for the concern. The mapositori now call themselves Madzibaba.

Many of the white gown chueches do not permit going to hospitals, a clear example is the Va Barwa in Botswana where the Govt had to force them to have their babies vaccinated.
Hear me, Oh LORD; for thy loving kindness is good: turn unto me according to the multitude of thy tender mercies. Ps 70:16

#38 generaldexter

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:37 PM

'to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife'

let me speak the unwritten assumption here

If a man had several wives and has not been seeing one of them (Wife A) and in the meanwhile seeing the rest, CAN HE FALL INTO FORNICATION because of Wife A ??

Why would PAUL Say Let a MAN have his own WIFE and NOT WIVES??

If Staying away from Wife A causes burning and starvation then, that man seems to be married to ONE WOMAN.

(This is By no way forcing a revation on you)

About PAUL (It is safer to me to listen to Paul than any other person, I speak of me. Paul was sent by God to Preach when he was going to Damascus ...He has a commission that i know (Gal 1:8) )

The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.


#39 Ojo

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:14 PM

View PostLife, on 14 March 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

You answered well, however the term 'mapositori' has an identification purpose just like saying 'pentecoastal' 'end time' or mainline churches. sorry for the concern. The mapositori now call themselves Madzibaba.

Many of the white gown chueches do not permit going to hospitals, a clear example is the Va Barwa in Botswana where the Govt had to force them to have their babies vaccinated.

I agree because I also read about those vaccinations and such things.

We call ourselves apostles or Vapostori (Shona). In Shona grammar, MApostori should imply something that is sub-human (non-living).

So it is normal to hear pastor say, "Runyararo ngarue ... Vapsotori!" (Luke 10:5). I know there are those who say "Rufaro kwa Muri" or something.

Madzibaba,if am not wrong is more used by the YeChishanu. We rarely use that. We may refer to someone as Baba or Mai (for female).

Its a pity AIDS got into Vapostori. That should not have happened. People are living badly and not taking care. Even the Holy Spirit knows that there is AIDS and it is infectious. Ironically, it is among Vapostori that you find prophets who can point a sick person - even if as fit as a fiddle - or miles away.
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#40 Will B. Free

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:01 PM

Generaldexter wholly agree with you when you say we should listen to Paul, its no coincidence his teachings are in the Holy book.They are the words of God.

Problem with modern churches is they are bible cherry pickers and are rewritting the rules to suit their own fashion. Forgive me Ojo this may sound harsh but is what you are doing not similar to the "gay christians of England". Who are forming their own gay friendly church because the mainstream church has a harsh interpretation of the gay issue?

Am also sure Ojo you alliow female pastors in your church because its only Paul's words that forbid frmale Pastors.you cant reject some of Pauls teachings and adopt those that suit you- ie refuse women preachers based on Paul while being polygamus contrary to Paul.
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