45 replies to this topic

[Life]

chapungu, on 19 March 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Thank You. A bible question must have a bible answer. Tatenda hedu.

Deuteronomy 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself,

[Life]

chapungu, on 19 March 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Thank You. A bible question must have a bible answer. Tatenda hedu.

Deuteronomy 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself,

[mufambi]

Life, on 20 March 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Deuteronomy 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself,

Interesting thread

[mufambi]

[quote name='polymath' timestamp='1332223387' post='699568']
Bump

[mufambi]

polymath, on 20 March 2012 - 06:13 AM, said:

very true there. the Bible may be silent on a number of issues but that doesn't make them right, for example one might ask : Is smoking Dagga Sin? and conclude that because its not in the Bible its not sin.

But the truth is anything that defiles God's temple is sin.

bump

[temba]

polymath, on 17 March 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

The highlighted text - are you saying God permitted polygamy in the old testament and rejected it in the new testament? Because if you are saying so then both you and the brother are wrong.....and thats a fact.

Tipei maserious Muparidzi!

Malachi 3:6
"I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed."

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Ephesians 4:14-16
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ

Polymath. Sometimes the kind of reasoning you put across is no different from Ojo! Reasoning that makes someone like bro. Chapungu blast you with heavy words!!

With this terrible kind of reasoning, could you tell me what you think about the fact tha a sinner had to sacrifice an animal (in the OT), but can no longer do that after Calvary? Would that be cOnsidered change of mind on the part of God?

Sometimes I wonder whether people think before they punch their key board!!!!

[polymath]

temba, on 20 March 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Polymath. Sometimes the kind of reasoning you put across is no different from Ojo! Reasoning that makes someone like bro. Chapungu blast you with heavy words!!

With this terrible kind of reasoning, could you tell me what you think about the fact tha a sinner had to sacrifice an animal (in the OT), but can no longer do that after Calvary? Would that be cOnsidered change of mind on the part of God?

Sometimes I wonder whether people think before they punch their key board!!!!

The answer lies here:

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

The first sacrifice ever recorded in the Bible is the one of the animal that was sacrificed by God to clothe Adam and Eve to cover their "nakedness" after they had sinned.

The last sacrifice was done by God Himself:

"Behold, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1:29

and Jesus says:
30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

So you see the first sacrifice in the OT was by God of an animal the last one by God himself in the NT (the Alpha and Omega) and in between you have sacrifices by man.

Now to the personal attack you raise:

As for my thinking and Ojo reasoning it is well. I'm not bothered  to stoop to those low depths of carnality....so i will not respond. I've already told you in previous posts that I'm not bothered with personal attacks.

As for Chapungu blasting me thats another matter altogether. If it is in his power to blast let him blast I will not resist him. After all who knows what virtues can drip from the lips of one given to violent outbursts of harsh language. It would probably edify the company of unbelievers for they glory in such outright displays of divisions in the body of Christ.

Now I have answered your question show me where God approved polygamy in the OT and we get on with the topic.

[temba]

polymath, on 21 March 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

The answer lies here:

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

The first sacrifice ever recorded in the Bible is the one of the animal that was sacrificed by God to clothe Adam and Eve to cover their "nakedness" after they had sinned.

I hope you can see that you have just interpreted the fact that God "sacrificed" an animal. Because if you are honest with yourself, you will be the first to admit that such a phrase does not exist when describing the skins that Adam and Eve were given! What you have said is correct, but only on the basis of our interpretation. So you should not be surprised if I gave you scripture that I also interpret to answer your question!

polymath, on 21 March 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

The last sacrifice was done by God Himself:

"Behold, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1:29

and Jesus says:
30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

So you see the first sacrifice in the OT was by God of an animal the last one by God himself in the NT (the Alpha and Omega) and in between you have sacrifices by man.

The parts in red are due to our conjecture of what must have happened.

polymath, on 21 March 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

Now to the personal attack you raise:

As for my thinking and Ojo reasoning it is well. I'm not bothered  to stoop to those low depths of carnality....so i will not respond. I've already told you in previous posts that I'm not bothered with personal attacks.

As for Chapungu blasting me thats another matter altogether. If it is in his power to blast let him blast I will not resist him. After all who knows what virtues can drip from the lips of one given to violent outbursts of harsh language. It would probably edify the company of unbelievers for they glory in such outright displays of divisions in the body of Christ.

Well I did not mean this to be a personal attack as such. It was just a point. I apologize if it came across in bad taste.

polymath, on 21 March 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

Now I have answered your question show me where God approved polygamy in the OT and we get on with the topic.

Well, here is my conjecture on your question.

1) Terah (Abraham's father) had two wives.
2) Abraham (the father of faith) married his own step sister and had several concubines (Genesis 25:6; I Chronicles 1:32).
3) Jacob bore the Patriarchs by his two wives, Rachel and Leah, and their concubines, Bilhah and Zilah.
4) Gideon (the judge) had many wives and at least one concubine who bore him more than seventy sons (Judges 8:30-31).
5) Elkanah(prophet Samuel's father) had two wives (I Samuel 1:1-2)
6) David (a man after God's Own Heart) had five hundred wives,
7) Solomon (a type of Christ) had 1000 wives.

So, God allowed all these (His people) to marry many wives! If He did not, He would have prevented them! Don't forget the universal law that meant no woman could ever have more than one living husband, for when Abimalech discovered Abraham was married to his sister Sarah, he knew he could not marry her --to add to his harem.  

In case some today's polygamist hijacks this explanation to propagate their lustful misadventures, let me hastily add that Paul teaches us that all of the Old Testament Law and history are shadows and types of things to come under the New Testament. In other words the natural types the spiritual. That then means the natural polygamy before Pentecost was a TYPE/SHADOW/ADUMBRATION to establish a pattern for the Spiritual Marriage Union between Christ (ONE) and His Bride (MANY). Remember that this is SPIRITUAL and not natural like what some polygamists on this forum would have us believe! If there were no polygamy in the Old Testament, then there could be no election and thus no new birth! Likewise, were there no NATURAL divorce, there could be no remission for past sins, and justification by grace through faith, according to Acts 2:38. I hope you get the point.

[Gab]

Life, on 20 March 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Deuteronomy 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself,

Pliz do not take the verses out of context to try to justify your opinion on polygamy!

Here is a "passage" from which the Deuteronomy 17:17 was extracted (Mind you this is Moses talking)

14People of Israel, after you capture the land the LORD your God is giving you, and after you settle on it, you will say, " We want a king, just like the nations around us."
    15Go ahead and appoint a king, but make sure that he is an Israelite and that he is the one the LORD has chosen.

    " 14People of Israel, after you capture the land the LORD your God is giving you, and after you settle on it, you will say, " We want a king, just like the nations around us."
    15Go ahead and appoint a king, but make sure that he is an Israelite and that he is the one the LORD has chosen.16The king should not have many horses, especially those from Egypt. The LORD has said never to go back there again. 17And the king must not have a lot of wives--they might tempt him to be unfaithful to the LORD. [c] Finally, the king must not try to get huge amounts of silver and gold. 18The official copy of God's laws [d] will be kept by the priests of the Levi tribe. So, as soon as anyone becomes king, he must go to the priests and write out a copy of these laws while they watch. 19Each day the king must read and obey these laws, so that he will learn to worship the LORD with fear and trembling 20and not think that he's better than everyone else. If the king completely obeys the LORD's commands, he and his descendants will rule Israel for many years."

Firstly, is this passage saying a king must have one wife? Certainly not.
Secondly, was this a law given by God to all men? No.
Thirdly, if we are to take the interpretation that life assumes (that verse 17 means a king must have one wife) then it follows that: The king must have one horse and also the king must have one unit (e.g. 1kg) of silver and one unit of gold. Certainly, this is not true and Deuteronomy 17:17 does not mean a king must have one wife (It simply means a king should have an acceptable number of wife i.e. he should not excessively indulge in "wives").

Mirairo yatakapihwa naMwari yakakwana. We do not need any more. And we do not need anyone to add even a single law nor subtract one. Kana kahafu kadiki zvako kemurairo hakafanire kuwedzerwa kana kutapudzwa.

[polymath]

temba, on 21 March 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

I hope you can see that you have just interpreted the fact that God "sacrificed" an animal. Because if you are honest with yourself, you will be the first to admit that such a phrase does not exist when describing the skins that Adam and Eve were given! What you have said is correct, but only on the basis of our interpretation. So you should not be surprised if I gave you scripture that I also interpret to answer your question!


The parts in red are due to our conjecture of what must have happened.


Well I did not mean this to be a personal attack as such. It was just a point. I apologize if it came across in bad taste.


Well, here is my conjecture on your question.

1) Terah (Abraham's father) had two wives.
2) Abraham (the father of faith) married his own step sister and had several concubines (Genesis 25:6; I Chronicles 1:32).
3) Jacob bore the Patriarchs by his two wives, Rachel and Leah, and their concubines, Bilhah and Zilah.
4) Gideon (the judge) had many wives and at least one concubine who bore him more than seventy sons (Judges 8:30-31).
5) Elkanah(prophet Samuel's father) had two wives (I Samuel 1:1-2)
6) David (a man after God's Own Heart) had five hundred wives,
7) Solomon (a type of Christ) had 1000 wives.

So, God allowed all these (His people) to marry many wives! If He did not, He would have prevented them! Don't forget the universal law that meant no woman could ever have more than one living husband, for when Abimalech discovered Abraham was married to his sister Sarah, he knew he could not marry her --to add to his harem.  

In case some today's polygamist hijacks this explanation to propagate their lustful misadventures, let me hastily add that Paul teaches us that all of the Old Testament Law and history are shadows and types of things to come under the New Testament. In other words the natural types the spiritual. That then means the natural polygamy before Pentecost was a TYPE/SHADOW/ADUMBRATION to establish a pattern for the Spiritual Marriage Union between Christ (ONE) and His Bride (MANY). Remember that this is SPIRITUAL and not natural like what some polygamists on this forum would have us believe! If there were no polygamy in the Old Testament, then there could be no election and thus no new birth! Likewise, were there no NATURAL divorce, there could be no remission for past sins, and justification by grace through faith, according to Acts 2:38. I hope you get the point.

Noted.

I would like to digest your post more slowly. The scriptures you quote provide a lot of evidence. But do not directly say God permitted polygamy.

Im intrested in the last part that you mention about shadows. I was aware of that based on your posts but I'm not well versed with the language of shadows and types.

If marriage is a shadow ..... of the bride of Christ to Christ ( the body of Christ devoted in heart to serve the Lord)......then by saying God allowed polygamy In the fleshly sense) in the OT ..... it implies God allowed worship of other gods (in the spiritual sense in the OT?)  Because that’s how the shadow of marriage (in the flesh to one wife) would relate to marriage in the spirit (worship of one God) as a shadow. But God is not an author of confusion. So for the shadow that you preach to apply God could not have condoned marriage.

I would like to look at the scriptures you have mentioned in more detail. But my initial comment is God is silent on whether Abraham and others did well  or not by practicing polygamy.

But the key scripture is this:

Matthew
8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

The question is: How was it in the beginning.

[temba]

polymath, on 22 March 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

Noted.

I would like to digest your post more slowly. The scriptures you quote provide a lot of evidence. But do not directly say God permitted polygamy.

Thats exactly why I used the words "conjecture" and "interpretation". And I take it that you agree that you also did the same when you said "God sacrificed"?

polymath, on 22 March 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

Im intrested in the last part that you mention about shadows. I was aware of that based on your posts but I'm not well versed with the language of shadows and types.

Well, I will scripturally lay this down, so no one can say its my own thoughts. Paul tells us the following:

Hebrews 10:1, "The Law having a SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered annually, make the comers thereunto perfect".

I hope this is plain to everyone. All the LAW --that includes the Ten commandments that the Adventists wrap themselves, so dearly, around! This means ALL the Law that the Old Testament talks about! All of it was shadowing things that were to come. I hope you get that. And being a shadow, that means that those laws could never make any one "perfect". What would make someone perfect was the thing that those laws were shadowing. When that thing that they shadowed became apparent, then the comers could be perfected! Here is more scripture:

Heb.8:[1] Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;[2] A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.[3] For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.[4] For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest,(He wasn't even a Levite) seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:[5] Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern (or TYPE/SHADOW/ADUMBRATION) shewed to thee in the mount.[6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

In other words, The Old Covenant was a SHADOW or TYPE of the New Testament. Paul, also taught that those of us who are born of God are dead to the things of the world and are alive to Christ. These things of the world include, pleasures of life, obeying laws, participating in ordinances, marrying many wives, divorcing, etc. In other words those worldly desires were crucified on Calvary where we died in Christ. So, being born again or being IN Christ at this very defining moment means you were IN Him when He was crucified on Calvary. And you were thus taken out of His side in the Form of the Holy Spirit AFTER He died. Exactly like what happened to Eve when she was taken from Adam's side AFTER God put Him to sleep in Eden. While this was happening, ALL the Law and ALL ordinances were also nailed to that Cross. No wonder we can confidently say that we are dead to all those things which were merely a SHADOW/TYPE of things to come. Here is him stressing it:

Col.2:[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

I wish both gentile Sabbath keepers and Polygamists would listen to these divine utterances! You are no longer required to observe, keep, undertake or even threaten someone to uphold those LAWS and ORDINANCES!! My! I wish I had a loud speaker on this forum! Please forum makers, make a loud speaker for those vanenge vapinda mumweya!

NO MORE (in big letters),
1) meat eating laws --vanoda bacon eat nguruve makafara muchipa kutenda!
2) respect of holydays -that could exonerate our PM who married musi wechisi!
3) respect of new moons --Chinese style!
4) observance of sabbath days --imagine, scripture says this and some big educated people will turn their heads and theologically explain it away! And they will ephasize "the THIRD commandment" with the aplomb of veteran sooth sayers!

And for crying out loud, (5) no more POLYGAMY --an ordinance allowed under the SHADOW pointing to the ONLY ONE and True Polygamist --Jesus Christ, in the spirit of course! I know this is painful to those who cling to these practices as though dear-life depended on them! But let that pain soak in! When it becomes unbearable, there is a simple analgesia prescribed by the Good Doctor as follows:

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matt.11:28)

All those that labour to get into the next Sabbath day --Go to Him
All those that are heavily laden with gluttonous wives or girlfriends --Go to Him too!

Amen and amen again!!!!  

polymath, on 22 March 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

If marriage is a shadow ..... of the bride of Christ to Christ ( the body of Christ devoted in heart to serve the Lord)......then by saying God allowed polygamy In the fleshly sense) in the OT ..... it implies God allowed worship of other gods (in the spiritual sense in the OT?)  Because that’s how the shadow of marriage (in the flesh to one wife) would relate to marriage in the spirit (worship of one God) as a shadow. But God is not an author of confusion. So for the shadow that you preach to apply God could not have condoned marriage.

No my friend. You are not getting it at all! A marriage ceremony is NOT a worship ceremony. Marriage is a UNION between two or more parties. The OLD TESTAMENT way was between ONE man and MANY women. The NEW TESTAMENT way is the same, only that its spiritual. The spiritual is the REAL thing --or you might say the real deal! The old way was NATURAL (panyama saana David et al), but the new way is SPIRITUAL (pamweya, kwete panyama which is prone to error). Here is scripture that might strengthen this idea of NATURAL and SPIRITUAL:

2Cor.4:[18] While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


So you see? The TEMPORAL things pointed to the ETERNAL things through the shadowing principle. Things that are seen are the NATURAL things, and things that are not seen are the SPIRITUAL things. Those NATURAL things (including all humans that will be or are in Christ at this very minute) were TIED together and NAILED to the Cross on That Day! I hope you can see why polygamy (a natural practice) was also nailed to that Cross! All these natural things merged (just like what your hand does when you get it closer and closer towards its shadow until they become one thing) with the spiritual and what came out of it all was the Spirit of Christ (Holy Ghost) -the Real Thing! That then became the "first born among many brethren". And every brethren has to follow the same way that the "First Born" went through. Hallelujah!!

Here is another scripture:

1Cor.2:[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You see? One needs to be spiritual for them to really get it! If one thinks naturally, its so easy for them to become polygamous and "sabbatarian". So easy for them to go back to the old manna of the Old ways!  

polymath, on 22 March 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

I would like to look at the scriptures you have mentioned in more detail. But my initial comment is God is silent on whether Abraham and others did well  or not by practicing polygamy.

But the key scripture is this:

If you read my post on "As also saith the law?", you will be able to understand that "SILENCE" of scripture is actually a declaration. Scriptures also SPEAK by their silence!

[temba]

polymath, on 22 March 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

Matthew
8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

The question is: How was it in the beginning.

The question you need to ask yourself is, who really was Moses? Here is a scenario that might help you understand that all that Moses wrote in the scriptures was actually God writing. Upon seeing the struggle of the Hebrews, God said the following to Moses:

Exod.3:[8] And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

As you can see, God said HE (personal pronoun) was going to deliver them out. In our own minds, we would expect Him to walk on two feet and liberate the Hebrews. But listen to how He did it:

Exod.3:[10] Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.

So can you see how God CAME DOWN AND DELIVERED them? It took the natural flesh man Moses for the statement of God to be fulfilled. In other words, God was IN FLESH in Moses delivering His people! No wonder scripture says the following about ALL scripture, including ALL that God allowed Moses to include in his writings:

Tim.3:[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So, where it is saying "Moses", try and substitute that with "the inspiration of God" and see what you come up with! Amen.

[Life]

Gab, on 21 March 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Pliz do not take the verses out of context to try to justify your opinion on polygamy!

Here is a "passage" from which the Deuteronomy 17:17 was extracted (Mind you this is Moses talking)

14People of Israel, after you capture the land the LORD your God is giving you, and after you settle on it, you will say, " We want a king, just like the nations around us."
    15Go ahead and appoint a king, but make sure that he is an Israelite and that he is the one the LORD has chosen.

    " 14People of Israel, after you capture the land the LORD your God is giving you, and after you settle on it, you will say, " We want a king, just like the nations around us."
    15Go ahead and appoint a king, but make sure that he is an Israelite and that he is the one the LORD has chosen.16The king should not have many horses, especially those from Egypt. The LORD has said never to go back there again. 17And the king must not have a lot of wives--they might tempt him to be unfaithful to the LORD. [c] Finally, the king must not try to get huge amounts of silver and gold. 18The official copy of God's laws [d] will be kept by the priests of the Levi tribe. So, as soon as anyone becomes king, he must go to the priests and write out a copy of these laws while they watch. 19Each day the king must read and obey these laws, so that he will learn to worship the LORD with fear and trembling 20and not think that he's better than everyone else. If the king completely obeys the LORD's commands, he and his descendants will rule Israel for many years."

Firstly, is this passage saying a king must have one wife? Certainly not.
Secondly, was this a law given by God to all men? No.
Thirdly, if we are to take the interpretation that life assumes (that verse 17 means a king must have one wife) then it follows that: The king must have one horse and also the king must have one unit (e.g. 1kg) of silver and one unit of gold. Certainly, this is not true and Deuteronomy 17:17 does not mean a king must have one wife (It simply means a king should have an acceptable number of wife i.e. he should not excessively indulge in "wives").

Mirairo yatakapihwa naMwari yakakwana. We do not need any more. And we do not need anyone to add even a single law nor subtract one. Kana kahafu kadiki zvako kemurairo hakafanire kuwedzerwa kana kutapudzwa.

I dont think its justification: its the gospel truth.
the old testament is a shadow of things in this new testament, this is reality.
Mirairo webarika haumo muurongwa hwaMwari, asi mweya weupombwe, neundyire ndyire hwenyu maakureva nhema makahwanda neBhaibheri, mapere akapfeka nguwo dzehwayi. Moda kugutsa nzara yenyama, morasha zvemweya. Verengayi Bhaibheri iri veduwe muri teedzere.

[polymath]

temba, on 22 March 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Thats exactly why I used the words "conjecture" and "interpretation". And I take it that you agree that you also did the same when you said "God sacrificed"?


Well, I will scripturally lay this down, so no one can say its my own thoughts. Paul tells us the following:


And for crying out loud, (5) no more POLYGAMY --an ordinance allowed under the SHADOW pointing to the ONLY ONE and True Polygamist --Jesus Christ, in the spirit of course! I know this is painful to those who cling to these practices as though dear-life depended on them! But let that pain soak in! When it becomes unbearable, there is a simple analgesia prescribed by the Good Doctor as follows:

So you see? The TEMPORAL things pointed to the ETERNAL things through the shadowing principle. Things that are seen are the NATURAL things, and things that are not seen are the SPIRITUAL things. Those NATURAL things (including all humans that will be or are in Christ at this very minute) were TIED together and NAILED to the Cross on That Day! I hope you can see why polygamy (a natural practice) was also nailed to that Cross! All these natural things merged (just like what your hand does when you get it closer and closer towards its shadow until they become one thing) with the spiritual and what came out of it all was the Spirit of Christ (Holy Ghost) -the Real Thing! That then became the "first born among many brethren". And every brethren has to follow the same way that the "First Born" went through. Hallelujah!!

Here is another scripture:

1Cor.2:[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You see? One needs to be spiritual for them to really get it! If one thinks naturally, its so easy for them to become polygamous and "sabbatarian". So easy for them to go back to the old manna of the Old ways!  


If you read my post on "As also saith the law?", you will be able to understand that "SILENCE" of scripture is actually a declaration. Scriptures also SPEAK by their silence!

Glory to God for that revelation!

Quote

Here is another scripture:

1Cor.2:[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

...."for we know in part and we see in part..."

10:14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

10:17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Life is about learning. I personally come here to learn as well. I teach to learn better, I teach not that I have knowledge.

Thanks for the post.. crystal clear. I would not see the furtherance of this debate if one carefully takes to heart the mentioned scriptures and revelation presented.

[temba]

polymath, on 23 March 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Glory to God for that revelation!



...."for we know in part and we see in part..."

10:14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

10:17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Life is about learning. I personally come here to learn as well. I teach to learn better, I teach not that I have knowledge.

Thanks for the post.. crystal clear. I would not see the furtherance of this debate if one carefully takes to heart the mentioned scriptures and revelation presented.

Thanx polymath. But I would like to stress that those who usually fight against the Word of God are the very ministers in the churches that profess Jesus is the Christ! And we have many of them right here, on this forum! They are so much against the truth that they end up denigrating even a VINDICATED person of God.

Remember, the bible is there for our edification. So you can say:
1) Who fought against Moses?
2) Who fought against Jesus?

For Moses --Dathan and Korah were actually LEVITES! Which means the very "ministers" went against a vindicated man of God --Moses! That was a Shadow for what's happening today. So, its not new at all.

For Jesus --the Pharisees were the revered scholars of the Word. But when the Word became flesh, it was those very people that professed "a Messiah is coming" who went against Him and eventually nailed Him!

So liars on this forum, whom if you confronted them with Truth, and ask them to authenticate their accusations will jump up and down in a yo-yo style! All their tales are based on thousand-hand information! Nothing authentic at all.

The Truth sets us all free!

[chapungu]

Brother Temba I sure hope you can stand by your theology that you teach here. The prophet said he taught what Paul taught and so he will make it. You my brother have your own theology that has nothing to do with the Prophet. You pick and choose what to believe from what the Prophet taught. I doubt you are true follower of Brother Branham. You do not teach what he taught on this issue. We will all have to stand for what we taught. You playing the part of a message a believer like the pharisee you referenced.

[chapungu]

Life, on 23 March 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

I dont think its justification: its the gospel truth.
the old testament is a shadow of things in this new testament, this is reality.
Mirairo webarika haumo muurongwa hwaMwari, asi mweya weupombwe, neundyire ndyire hwenyu maakureva nhema makahwanda neBhaibheri, mapere akapfeka nguwo dzehwayi. Moda kugutsa nzara yenyama, morasha zvemweya. Verengayi Bhaibheri iri veduwe muri teedzere.

Is that the same bible written by polygamists? Israel itself a nation formed out of polygamy. The ignorance is amazing and so blissful.

[chapungu]

temba, on 21 March 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

I hope you can see that you have just interpreted the fact that God "sacrificed" an animal. Because if you are honest with yourself, you will be the first to admit that such a phrase does not exist when describing the skins that Adam and Eve were given! What you have said is correct, but only on the basis of our interpretation. So you should not be surprised if I gave you scripture that I also interpret to answer your question!


The parts in red are due to our conjecture of what must have happened.


Well I did not mean this to be a personal attack as such. It was just a point. I apologize if it came across in bad taste.


Well, here is my conjecture on your question.

1) Terah (Abraham's father) had two wives.
2) Abraham (the father of faith) married his own step sister and had several concubines (Genesis 25:6; I Chronicles 1:32).
3) Jacob bore the Patriarchs by his two wives, Rachel and Leah, and their concubines, Bilhah and Zilah.
4) Gideon (the judge) had many wives and at least one concubine who bore him more than seventy sons (Judges 8:30-31).
5) Elkanah(prophet Samuel's father) had two wives (I Samuel 1:1-2)
6) David (a man after God's Own Heart) had five hundred wives,
7) Solomon (a type of Christ) had 1000 wives.

So, God allowed all these (His people) to marry many wives! If He did not, He would have prevented them! Don't forget the universal law that meant no woman could ever have more than one living husband, for when Abimalech discovered Abraham was married to his sister Sarah, he knew he could not marry her --to add to his harem.  

In case some today's polygamist hijacks this explanation to propagate their lustful misadventures, let me hastily add that Paul teaches us that all of the Old Testament Law and history are shadows and types of things to come under the New Testament. In other words the natural types the spiritual. That then means the natural polygamy before Pentecost was a TYPE/SHADOW/ADUMBRATION to establish a pattern for the Spiritual Marriage Union between Christ (ONE) and His Bride (MANY). Remember that this is SPIRITUAL and not natural like what some polygamists on this forum would have us believe! If there were no polygamy in the Old Testament, then there could be no election and thus no new birth! Likewise, were there no NATURAL divorce, there could be no remission for past sins, and justification by grace through faith, according to Acts 2:38. I hope you get the point.

This is not what the Prophet of God that you claim to follow teaches so that makes you a hypocrite. You are pretending to be a message believer and yet you agree with denominational people against the Prophet. You are no prophet. You have no right to dream up your own doctrines and lie to people on this forum. Again I hope you have the stomach to stand with your lies on the day of judgment. You are lying  and you know it. Shame on you  but your day will come when you have to answer for your lies on this forum.

The Word of God comes only to a Prophet. Keep teaching your false theology and you will see if you will make it. You are not a follower of Brother Branham.

[chapungu]

This is shameful nonsense being propagated by Br Temba. Marriage is a type of Jesus Christ and His bride. That is well defined in the bible. So by his false theology polygamous marriage was a type until Jesus Christ and then after that it is over. Totally false theology with no basis in truth. A doctrine from the very depths of hell. A monogamous marriage itself is a type of Jesus Christ and His bride. But does that mean we should not marry because it is a natural type of Jesus Christ and His bride? Error is always 99 percent. There is no revelation from Br Temba but his own false theology that will send a man to hell faster than a prostiitute.

The blind leading the blind they will both fall in a ditch.

[temba]

Imagine? All this language comes from someone who claims to be a Christian!

I put scriptures across as per Paul's letters. Instead of showing where those scriptures are wrongly placed, one bites their lower lip to castigate my person!

I'm lost for words indeed!