13 replies to this topic

[Gweru]

ingozi, on 13 April 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

It seems up to this days noone in atebeleland or on this forum or other african fora has come up with an alternative of how they would have handled the dissident situation nhadai vanga vari ivo vari panyanga that time. I am waiting with baited breath

I would have trained the 5th brigade not to killed civilians, not to rape civilians, not beat up innocent people. not to intimidate the local population.

the british army was in northern ireland for 38 years yet they killed 360 civilians, while the 5th brigade was in Matebeleland for 4 years and they killed thousands  ,raped and beat up tens of thousands.

Gukurahundi had nothing to do with stopping dissidents, it was all about Zanu eliminating zapu and intimidating Ndebeles so they wouldn't vote Zapu in the 1985 election.

[ingozi]

First things first gukurahundi was indeed about dissidents who at first were killing white farmers then turned on blacks i remember i had a friend called Jabu in high school and we would always tease him saying he is the only one that can pass through a dissident roadblock coz he'll just say ibizo lami nguJabu and show his ID and pass..They did set up check points and also killed civilians.

This Jabu friend always used to say he didn't understand why dissidents chose to operate in their own area meaning killing their own people

[Gweru]

ingozi, on 13 April 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

First things first gukurahundi was indeed about dissidents who at first were killing white farmers then turned on blacks i remember i had a friend called Jabu in high school and we would always tease him saying he is the only one that can pass through a dissident roadblock coz he'll just say ibizo lami nguJabu and show his ID and pass..They did set up check points and also killed civilians.

This Jabu friend always used to say he didn't understand why dissidents chose to operate in their own area meaning killing their own people

i didn't  say that dissidents didn't killed people, they did kill. and that is bad.

But i am saying that is not the reason Why Mugabe sent the 5th brigade, he sent the 5th brigade to crash Zapu support.He just used the 100 or so dissidents as a reason to send the 5,000 soldiers

if 5th brigade was really fighting a anti insurgency campaign, they would have needed to win the "heats and minds" of the local Ndebele people, but instead they killed more than 10,000 of them and raped and beat up even more. they instilled fear into the people.

The british army was fighting a anti insurgency campaign in northern ireland for 38 years and they killed 360 civilian.

while the 5th brigade was in Matebeleland for 4 years and they killed more than 10,000 and raped even more.

[ingozi]

zim1840, on 13 April 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

i didn't  say that dissidents didn't killed people, they did kill. and that is bad.

But i am saying that is not the reason Why Mugabe sent the 5th brigade, he sent the 5th brigade to crash Zapu support.He just used the 100 or so dissidents as a reason to send the 5,000 soldiers

if 5th brigade was really fighting a anti insurgency campaign, they would have needed to win the "heats and minds" of the local Ndebele people, but instead they killed more than 10,000 of them and raped and beat up even more. they instilled fear into the people.

The british army was fighting a anti insurgency campaign in northern ireland for 38 years and they killed 360 civilian.

while the 5th brigade was in Matebeleland for 4 years and they killed more than 10,000 and raped even more.

I don't agree with your figures i studied in England at the height of the Irish/Brishiit conflict and can safely tell you that ..that figure 300 is on one incident! Every single day there was a bomb going off in Northen Island Lindenderry and other counties and you think all that only added up to 300 some casualties? You say tha to an Irsih person see what you get

Going back to our own gukurahundi denial does not solve our problem neither is it going to help us with the healing process on my part i agree that the fifth brigade over-did their mission whether it was direct order from the high command who knows if it was a by any means necessary order..Once we accept tyhat the dissidents played their part and the fifth brigade over did theirs then maybe we can start the healing process

[Gweru]

ingozi, on 13 April 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

I don't agree with your figures i studied in England at the height of the Irish/Brishiit conflict and can safely tell you that ..that figure 300 is on one incident! Every single day there was a bomb going off in Northen Island Lindenderry and other counties and you think all that only added up to 300 some casualties? You say tha to an Irsih person see what you get

Going back to our own gukurahundi denial does not solve our problem neither is it going to help us with the healing process on my part i agree that the fifth brigade over-did their mission whether it was direct order from the high command who knows if it was a by any means necessary order..Once we accept tyhat the dissidents played their part and the fifth brigade over did theirs then maybe we can start the healing process

the total figure for those killed in in Northern ireland is 3,500 including 1,500 civilians, i only mentioned the 360 killed because that is the amount of civilians killed by the british army alone, not counting those killed by others.


i think if the people responsible for civilians killed by the 5th Brigade, where to apologize that would help with the  "healing process".


But i still remain convinced that those civilians were killed simply because they lived in a Region which overwhelmingly supported Zapu. and the whole intention of sending the 5th brigade was to instill fear.

i do not however associate all shona people with the 5th Brigade, just like nobody should associate all Ndebele people with the dissidents.

thanks for your time.

[ingozi]

zim1840, on 13 April 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

the total figure for those killed in in Northern ireland is 3,500 including 1,500 civilians, i only mentioned the 360 killed because that is the amount of civilians killed by the british army alone, not counting those killed by others.


i think if the people responsible for civilians killed by the 5th Brigade, where to apologize that would help with the  "healing process".


But i still remain convinced that those civilians were killed simply because they lived in a Region which overwhelmingly supported Zapu. and the whole intention of sending the 5th brigade was to instill fear.

i do not however associate all shona people with the 5th Brigade, just like nobody should associate all Ndebele people with the dissidents.

thanks for your time.

Kool

[mufambi]

great respectful discussion. Focusing on the issue not personalities or tribe. Quite difficult to do when  discussing that era. Maybe others can learn from you.

[Squatter]

The difference between the British army in Northern Ireland and Mugabe's  5th brigade is one simple word - savage!

One army was a well trained, professional orginization working with the bounds of the law (Brits), the other was merely a bunch of blood thirsty savages dressed up to look pretty!

[mystify]

mufambi, on 13 April 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

great respectful discussion. Focusing on the issue not personalities or tribe. Quite difficult to do when  discussing that era. Maybe others can learn from you.

I am impressed too i wish all (excluding rhodhies) conversations here were like this then it will be a fun place to be

[Squatter]

mystify, on 13 April 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

I am impressed too i wish all (excluding rhodhies) conversations here were like this then it will be a fun place to be

Shit-fly - you thick kunt, while you are around, there are no fun places to be - sorry but you stink the place out with all that ZANU shit dripping off you!

[mystify]

zanoid_slapper, on 13 April 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

Shit-fly - you thick kunt, while you are around, there are no fun places to be - sorry but you stink the place out with all that ZANU shit dripping off you!

Too bad why don't you try your own forum rhodesianforum.net is it too boring with all  the fuddy daddy geriatric rhodhies getting a little joll from hating blacsk and  hoping and wishing rhodesia would come back? ha ha God is for us all remembr that always bhunu

[Squatter]

mystify, on 13 April 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Too bad why don't you try your own forum rhodesianforum.net is it too boring with all  the fuddy daddy geriatric rhodhies getting a little joll from hating blacsk and  hoping and wishing rhodesia would come back? ha ha God is for us all remembr that always bhunu

Aaaaayaaaas - professional blackness in all it's glory!

[mystify]

We unrelentlessly bash your ugly heads and you know it too

[Gweru]

great respectful discussion indeed.