52 replies to this topic

[mukonyo]

True Mablazo.!its spot on.i work with south africans.Those pple are very ignorant abt sports  such as rugby or cricket where they dominate.Evn the europian leagues we always tok abt ,they don't give a damn.All they care abt is their local soccer,nt tht its wrong but they're so blinkered to thnk tht theirs is the best ligi, thats why they are so much hopeful of the non perfoming bafana.i v tried discusing sports w thm bt the most i interact w a jst ignorant abt e whole thng.

[Van-Bommel]

Why cant he just play for ZIM??
I mean i have no problems with what CLUB  he plays for but these problems would not exist if he played for ZIMBABWE or NO International rugby at all.
Then there would be no argument.

[golonice]

mablazo, on 19 November 2009 - 11:14 AM, said:

wtf??? claiming to be Shona when yoou are in fact Shona is lack of humility?

why go around shouting that you are shona in a foreign land, do you think people care, they got 11 tribes to worry about, so to them theres nothing special about a shona, to them we are all zimbabwean, foreigners, same applies anywhere else, Britain, USA etc, thats y i said IMHO was it not enough of him to just say im a Zimbabwean, or just stay out of it given his status is in question. sometimes what you might consider as self pride is percieved as cockiness during volatile times. nothing personal about this

[MK-mat]

mablazo, on 19 November 2009 - 11:54 AM, said:

what's you point shasha? let's leave the name-calling game and tell us your arguments nhaika? I could also call you names, but shame, I won't stoop to your level, Mr. ex-Zimbabwean

Out of sync because he does not understand - Zulu/Sotho, - "tsotsitali", Etharaa, - All Star TAKKIES, - kwaito & House Music groves, - has never appeared on SELIMATHUNZI, - Never hangs out in SOWETO, THEMBISA etc, - Never hangs out with the kids from emikhukwini(Squatter Camps) etc

[golonice]

Mastermind, on 19 November 2009 - 08:18 PM, said:

Taura zvako. For your own information Mr Golonice, Mtawarira grew up in Harare, a place where 0.00001% of the population speak Ndebele. What you are saying is like saying that someone in Southern Ontario (Canada) ought to speak French because they speak french in bloody Quebec. That type of reasoning is very silly for lack of a better word.

erm.. most of us never grew up in Harare, spent most of our time in MatLand South(not Bulawayo) where 0.00001% of the population speak shona, but alas were fully understand and can speak shona. Why? we werent forced to learn shona by anyone, we werent obliged to. it was out of interest and will to learn from the few shona people we met in our lives.We also managed to learn siTswana from the Tswana people who stayed in Bulawayo and plumtree during the good days.

when watching tv, local news was broadcast in both Shona & siNdebele every single day, Radio 2 was broadcast in Shona and SiNdebele every day, Eric knight would speak shona, whilst ezra would speak in ndebele, our national anthem is in Shona & ndebele, the education system allowed for both shona & ndebele to be taught, shona and ndebele textbooks were awash. so to say you cant even understand a single ndebele/shona word is very silly

anyway good luck for the Beast

[mablazo]

golonice, on 19 November 2009 - 07:33 PM, said:

why go around shouting that you are shona in a foreign land, do you think people care, they got 11 tribes to worry about, so to them theres nothing special about a shona, to them we are all zimbabwean, foreigners, same applies anywhere else, Britain, USA etc, thats y i said IMHO was it not enough of him to just say im a Zimbabwean, or just stay out of it given his status is in question. sometimes what you might consider as self pride is percieved as cockiness during volatile times. nothing personal about this

I don't think he went around shouting that he was Shona (I doubt that many South African heard that statement anyway). he stated the obvious and I don't see anything wrong about that, neither should that be construed to mean Shonas are special. whether and why he can speak Ndebele or not that's another debate. FYI I respect people who can speak both languages

[mablazo]

MK-mat, on 19 November 2009 - 07:57 PM, said:

Out of sync because he does not understand - Zulu/Sotho, - "tsotsitali", Etharaa, - All Star TAKKIES, - kwaito & House Music groves, - has never appeared on SELIMATHUNZI, - Never hangs out in SOWETO, THEMBISA etc, - Never hangs out with the kids from emikhukwini(Squatter Camps) etc

another wtf???      how many Boks hang out in Soweto or emikhukwini? and why should he hang out in Soweto when he is in Durban? Does Habana wear All Stars? how do you know which music he listens to or which languages he does/not understand? Unfortunately rugby is still an elite sport and few rubgy players, South African or not, have that loction culture you want to shove down on everybody. I know many South African who don't follow those benchmarks of being "in sync"

[John Kachere]

Minister of sports in RSA is not to be taken seriously...

Now he is onto Semenya's case.... He and his statements are not worthy a moment of our PRECIOUS TIME ON THESE PRECIOUS FORUMS

[hoza]

mablazo, on 19 November 2009 - 11:40 AM, said:

haiwawo, they are not in sync with the whole Rugy team, be it Brian Habana or John Smit

Fact!!!!

[hoza]

Mtawarira does not need to go & hang out in Soweto, squatters or any such place because there is no need for him to do so & the people from those place don't know or care who he is or what he does.

If you take Mtawarira to Sakubva, Mbare, Highfield, Mufakose, Mpopoma etc very few kids will know who he is or what he does if they care at all

Mtawarira is talented in a sport that is elitist in most countries where it's played, people from under privileged areas of most rugby playing countries do not have rugby playing heroes.

He can not speak the indeginous SA languages because he never grew up speaking it just like maybe 95% of his boks teammates. The fact that he does not speaking Ndebele is understandable if he spend his whole life in Shona speaking areas just like thousands of Ndebele boys who can't speak Shona.

There are some people who might not want to learn Ndebele or Shona but it does not mean all Ndebele or Shona have that mentality

[chikomana]

MaZimba mune vusimbe bwokuverenga and understanding the full context of the situation before you comment. We debated about this a while ago and I specifically pointed out to us cosidering what the South Africans feel. Noone understood what I was saying and am surprised people seem not to get what the minister is saying! At the end of the day...the fairness of national sports calls for a country to chose the best players who are nationals...South Africans to play for South Africa. The whole spirit is simply competition at country level. Hence Drogba can not turn out for Zimbabwe for South Africa because he is Ivorian. Peter could not have turned out for

Now Tendai managed to sneak past the usual scrutiny due to the nature of the sport. But looking at it, how was he even allowed to play for SA when he is just on a work permit? The difference with the likes of Skinstaad is that they got SA citizenship first. Even when Victor Olonga played for Zim...he got citizenship first. So at the end of the day....what exactly are you saying when you choose a Zimbabwean citizen to play for South Africa before you even give him a South African passport to travel on? There is still the legal and admin side of it!

Come on guys!

[John Kachere]

Chikomana, I wonder how you manage to understand what the minister is saying when he doesnt understand what he is saying. I read and followed the story but m nowhere near enlightenement.  Before the 7th the minister quoted a section of the act 4 SARU, on the 11th and 12th its pure emotion. No LEGAL support. Kana waivona ndiratidzevo...
http://www.timeslive...ticle191883.ece

[chikomana]

Kachere, on 21 November 2009 - 06:37 PM, said:

Chikomana, I wonder how you manage to understand what the minister is saying when he doesnt understand what he is saying. I read and followed the story but m nowhere near enlightenement.  Before the 7th the minister quoted a section of the act 4 SARU, on the 11th and 12th its pure emotion. No LEGAL support. Kana waivona ndiratidzevo...
http://www.timeslive...ticle191883.ece

Dude you are trying to complicate this more than what it should be. The minister clearly alludes to the (i) legal and (ii) moral side of the issue here.

“We must state up front our admiration for the gifted Zimbabwean prop forward,” the Ministry statement said. “He is a live wire on the rugby field. But just like he must obey the rules of rugby on the field, he must comply with the laws of South Africa in life here on our land, like all of us.

“According to the President, as well as the CEO of the SARU [the Sputh African Rugby Union], ‘The Beast’ is not a citizen of South Africa. He does not even have a permit for permanent residence in South Africa. The CEO of the Sharks corroborates these facts and makes the interesting remarks: ‘There has never been any issue about his nationality’.

“The issue here is not his nationality. It is his citizenship. He has never applied for South African citizenship or a passport. Of course he would not get a passport if he was not our citizen. This is the law that all citizens in all countries respect. What is wrong with some of our compatriots? No sport can be bigger than South Africa!

Firstly let me point out that I have nothing against Beast and do not mind him playing for SA. To begin with legally: Natal Rugby got him a special purpose work permit meant for managers....and not players. Now SARU is only supposed to select South Africa players to play for the national team here. But lets says they WANT Beast to play for SA, then at least they should make sure they upgrade his status from work permit to citizenship. That would then take the legal aspect out of it. But still there is a moral aspect to the game.

“Sports leaders should be the first to understand why national teams cannot play foreigners, no matter how outstanding they may be. Morné Steyn cannot represent New Zealand, Dan Carter cannot represent Wales, Wayne Rooney cannot play for Bafana Bafana. The list goes on. To simply rely on slipping through the legal framework (as the CEO of the Sharks seems to be doing) is very dangerous and negligent. Let us take our country more seriously.” without even giving him a perm res status. That is abuse to me for a player his stature! How can anyone play for a national team when they only has a work permit?"

Now that is the moral aspect of it. National teams are primarily for pride not a source of living. Agreed that SA Rugby is now different....but that is still the crux of national teams. Its different from professional teams that can hire the best talent. Kana tikati totamba bhora tiri mhuri yokwaChikomana, it has to be ropa rokwaChikomana...we can probably try to squeeze in vazukuru and at the most adopted children (in which category Beast would qualify)...outside of that we can't include vana garden boy! What SARU went and did here was to include their accountant and not even try to adopt them or change their last names!

We should actually be mad at SARU here for not using Tendai without even attempting to get him a perm rez. Thats opposed to Kenny Tsimba, and Tonderai Chavhanga who got citizenship first.  

What you are not taking into consideration is what kind of sport rugby is. Rugby is primarily a British sport and legal nationality is not easy there....however you can not use that to circumvent the moral aspect of national team sports. More than half of the Aussies and All Blacks can qualify for UK passports and all do allow for dual citizenship not to mention the technical complexity of UK itself. It used to be you only had to play in that country at least for a season prior to representing them...meaning you could actually represent many countries. However Rugby tried to join the Olympics and they had to update their rules.

[John Kachere]

I would have loved to see you quoting a clause of the act from the minister... which says only citizens must be selected by SARU.

The minister of sports is simply stepping on the toes of the minister of home affairs questioning Y he/she gave Mtawarira that scarce skills visa

[chikomana]

Kachere, on 22 November 2009 - 07:55 PM, said:

I would have loved to see you quoting a clause of the act from the minister... which says only citizens must be selected by SARU.

The minister of sports is simply stepping on the toes of the minister of home affairs questioning Y he/she gave Mtawarira that scarce skills visa

Kachere....its Natal rugby and SARU whom the minister is exposing. You need to understand the historical facts behind everything in this sport to understand how all this is unfolding and where the kinks are. Choosing foreigners (Zimbabweans and Namibians) for the Springboks is not nothing new. In the 70s we were basically SA provinces, but issue of citizenship (passport) yanga isina basa because varungu vese vaitova ne 2-3 passports (British, Zim and SA like vana Bruce Grobelar). But still it would be courteous to give someone that nation's passport first before you let them play for you like they did with Adrian Garvey and even naana Tsimba.

Tendai's situation was a bungling error ye Natal Rugby and SARU. If you live in SA do you seriously think Beast would not have been given a passport kudhara without anyone knowing had either Natal rugby or SARU made an effort? The question is why did they not make an effort? Not wait until you can't get visas for the player to start asking for assistance from the sports minister. Zvatava kuisa focus on the minister kutuka atumwa and not saying anythng to the responsible party. Kana iye Beast wenyu shuwa ungagara nguva yese iyi usina kuisa pressure yemapepa? At least perm rez zvayo!

[John Kachere]

chikomana, on 23 November 2009 - 03:43 AM, said:

Kachere....its Natal rugby and SARU whom the minister is exposing. You need to understand the historical facts behind everything in this sport to understand how all this is unfolding and where the kinks are. Choosing foreigners (Zimbabweans and Namibians) for the Springboks is not nothing new. In the 70s we were basically SA provinces, but issue of citizenship (passport) yanga isina basa because varungu vese vaitova ne 2-3 passports (British, Zim and SA like vana Bruce Grobelar). But still it would be courteous to give someone that nation's passport first before you let them play for you like they did with Adrian Garvey and even naana Tsimba.

Tendai's situation was a bungling error ye Natal Rugby and SARU. If you live in SA do you seriously think Beast would not have been given a passport kudhara without anyone knowing had either Natal rugby or SARU made an effort? The question is why did they not make an effort? Not wait until you can't get visas for the player to start asking for assistance from the sports minister. Zvatava kuisa focus on the minister kutuka atumwa and not saying anythng to the responsible party. Kana iye Beast wenyu shuwa ungagara nguva yese iyi usina kuisa pressure yemapepa? At least perm rez zvayo!

Inga you know the full story wani? Thats a relief...... Its only the interpretation of facts patiri kusiyana. I think the minister is exposing his XENOPHOBIC characteristics, His statements on the 11th and 12th of Nov are emotional rumblings of a bitter man. He as the sports minister if Beast cant legaly play 4 SA should have stopped it way before SARU asked 4 help nepassport or before the tour if he had any legal leg to stand on.

Beast can play 4 the Boks without RSA residents/citizenship. Agreed. He has played and continue playing LEGALY. The minister and all xenophobs can suck my     .... maradona

Yes SARU asked the minister to help get Beast passport/citizenship, minister ndobva aiita sokunge asina kumbogara ahwanezvaBEAST quaoting section which requires that SARU should inform him of a foreigner in the team. It was all very well and SARU "informed him" then he had no more legs to stand on and he started blubbering on about everything including nothing.

The sports minister is questioning the validity of giving Beast scarce skills visa ie he is questioning home affairs work. that to me is stepping on a collegue's toes. Did you want beast to fraydylently get a SA ID? He asked thru SARU the ministry of Sports to facilitate his citizenship. Adaro minister votopopota sebenzi. Minister should have sillently facilitated "the live wire's" citizenship and avoided the embarassment he has cozed himself. After thoz statements the BEAST went on to play.... what says thou minister?

He turns to the Semenya saga. Im.h.a.ta kani Stofile/whatever his name is?

[Bo Ska*z]

Saka whats the latest on Beast? Will he still turn out for the Boks against Ireland?

[John Kachere]

Bo Ska*z, on 24 November 2009 - 11:13 PM, said:

Saka whats the latest on Beast? Will he still turn out for the Boks against Ireland?

Beast has been playing on tour, The coach will decide if he wants him , he will likely play coz Boks are depleted nemainjury.

Meanwhile the ministry of sports is busy trying to sneak a bill in parly to make sure only RSA citizens turn out 4 national teams. As we speak there is no clause that stops Mtawarira from playing for the Boks

[John Kachere]

I think the bill (Act) will just be to avoid this confusion in the future... I would not take it as targeted on the beast... although it starts around his case.

That is a good law to have... It clears things unambiguously

[John Kachere]

the beast is in... team anounced minutes ago....

Ironicaly, he is the 1st to be called followed by John Smit... I have always found it intriguing even before debacle